If rationality is removed too soon

Back to philippe's Comment Comment on Issues of inclusion v exclusion in Auroville

by Rod  in reply to philippe Last Updated: May 15, 2011

Phillipe - This is Rod responding on Robert's computer, for technical reasons.
I see what you are talking about, and am aware of the occult point of view or explanation of things. But I prefer the philosophical approach, for a couple of reasons.
If there are dogs at the gate, which I agree that there are, and asuras using people for their hostile purposes, which there are, we still have to deal with the humans. Even if we have realized, and not only noticed, both the darkness and the light, and are relatively liberated, the manifestations are still there. So what do we achieve with this kind of interpretation? The dogs have to be removed, the falsehoods exposed, and the social sphere engaged through educational, political, spiritual and other means.
The other reason is that it can happen that people begin to imagine that their role as representatives of the dark forces and the light forces are destined and they assume that this is hat they are supposed to be doing; they justify and intensify their behaviors instead of changing them. One of the results of this pattern, which can be seen in Auroville, is a kind of mass paranoid psychosis. Instead of addressing the behaviors of people in a direct and rational way, people are overcome by their fears and their righteous delusions, etc.
I prefer using Occam's razor, if possible. The law of parsimony was effectively used to combat religious obscurantism during his time as well.

Back to Rod's Comment by Vladimir  in reply to Rod Last Updated: May 15, 2011

Good points, Rod.

Yes, it is important while ‘trying to be spiritual’ to remain also human and rational at the same time not changing too soon into ‘spiritual’. If rationality is removed too soon before it has completed its painful transformational work, the dogmatic approach may take over and spoil our attempt to become spiritual by dragging us back to a dogmatism and religious obscurantism. And we know very well by experience what it means. And since our aim is an integral realization, which includes matter and physical life, we must remain both spiritual and rational, allowing a new way of being to emerge.  

This implies to be critical, but, again, not overcritical.

Re: Leaders of the Integral Yoga

I can spend a little time to help educate here on the true nature of yoga. Here is my definition (I am writing a book on it): "Yoga is a psycho-political ideology designed and perfected by the great Hindu sages of the past to rob you off of your intellect. Once you have been robbed off of your intellect, it has psychological, psychiatric, and political consequences potentially leading you to commit suicide."
I shall wait for your response. GB Singh

Posted - Thu May 19, 2011 2:17 am

Sri Aurobindo's Writings - The Mother's Collected Works

Who stays as permanent resident of Golconde

From Sunil sunilauro@gmail.com to tusarnmohapatra@gmail.com date 6 January 2011 12:01 subject For posting

Give back the Ashram to whom it belongs.

People come and go, but what is permanent is the force and power that sustains them and is the source of all harmony and support behind the existence, for without it nothing can exist and all may perish given the capacity of any individual or power. So it is wiser to work for that which is permanent, which is all love, which is our true self hidden behind these cloaks of ignorance run by ambition and power and possession which lead to no lasting satisfaction. How are we to make this shift from personal greatness to the greatness of all, how we can serve the community instead of my personal preferences, how we can serve the Divine which is abiding in all that exists. One way is to see what divides and what unites. If it unites it has a greater use, if it divides it makes us what we already are the small ego. But are we going to remain the small ego or take part in the big movements that are flowering around us. Are we going to ride the waves of progress, beauty, harmony and strength or close ourselves in our dark little box and expect things to go our way. What is it going to be for the seekers of perfection, for the aspirants of a higher life, for well wishers of the Ashram, for the disciples of Sri Aurobindo. If we are to be a little of the worthy of the Mother’s love we need to give ourselves to Her, to see how She would do things, how She would tirelessly pour Her love on all of us. How She would patiently guide and protect us and carve the way of the future for the new world so that we may live, be and experience the wealth that is known only in the Heavens.

Are we going to say no to Her gifts just because we want power for ourselves, what use is such power if in spite of being a Trustee one is surrounded by conflict, is busy protecting its power in any which way possible, is busy feeling the pressure of misdeeds surmounting, is busy taking credit in oneself for the praise and respect that people give to a Trustee, is busy juggling between the position and self greatness to an opening of failure, is busy recruiting soldiers for personal protection and support, is smashing all that stands in one’s way of being in power and sole right. With all this how much room is left for simplicity, for a hearty laughter, for peace of mind which even a poor man with nothing can be seen enjoying. Given the fruits is it worth living for one’s petty arrogances, or is it better to live for others in which all that you have lost even returns.

If Ashram is one’s job, let us collaborate in whose Ashram it is and serve that. The Mother loves her children and She always wants the best for them, can’t we collaborate in that and open all the heavenly doors for us too in the process. What works for them is our agenda. No more what works for me for I am limitation and ignorance and have failed and will fail. What forwards the Divine movement is our only goal. It is not too difficult, is it?

Recommendations:

It works for people to come to Pondicherry for Darshan days and take part in the meditation and be around the magnificent that vibrates. For that the Mother had kept the timing for meditation from 10 am to 10.30 am. This gives people the necessary time if they are coming from a distance; it keeps the energy vibrant all day along as the peak time it is 10 am and not 6 am. And we won’t close doors as we do now just after the meditation in the school and declare it over and everybody has to be in the street even before breakfast. We give them the space for the divine Lila with the celebrity in the air as it has always been when the Mother was there.

We are not apart from the world, we are part of the world. If comfort and peace we seek we do it by embracing and not by closing doors. It is in the opening and sharing we manifest love, peace, harmony and express that reality. You are a trustee to serve the divine, and the divine is in the people, so you need to see what works for them, if you have personal likes and dislikes you have to consult it with the ever loving source, it is a collective working that has to be sought.

When I was in the school I remember how the Mother brought the best of talent from around the world to give us the best education. She constructed the state of the art guest house called Golconde for their temporary residence. In the evening I remember there was a choice which language class would you like to join, which drama or play would you like to participate in, which music instrument you would like to learn, with an ever spray of performers from all over India and around the world offering their show to the Ashram. There was life being lived, enchantment was a natural experience and wonder a constant play mate. Now this philosophy of closing doors what has it brought, even the Sri Aurobindo International Centre of Education has lost the International in it.

And who stays as permanent residence of Golconde the creators of new versions of the writings of Sri Aurobindo, the gang who wants to prove to the world Sri Aurobindo was not competent, his hand writing was bad, his eyesight was bad, his experiences were hallucinations and we will give you Sri Aurobindo as we want him to be and as we see him and we are the great ones, living greatly and who can question our position and power and anybody who raises an objection becomes dirt.

Where is our willingness for what is right, our commitment for the victory of the Divine, can we not serve the Divine and nothing else. Can we be strong enough to respect and live the life of Sri Aurobindo Ashram which the Mother has created and is creating for us? Sunil

I only go by as to what A.G. said and not by what others say

Comment on Sri Aurobindo’s letter to Moraji Desai by nirmalya ...students of AG at the National Council of Education Bengal. As I understand he also did not like that he should have devotees and even went to the extent of prohibiting prostration in front of his picture inside the Ashram. But unfortunately things did change. Please appreciate that we are dealing with a person who was beyond us and of course be... from Comments for Overman Foundation - May 7, 2011 (3 days ago)

Comment on Sri Aurobindo’s letter to Moraji Desai by bijan ghosh ...AG” for Sri Aurobindo. one may refer as “He” – if he thinks that writting “Sri Aurobindo” is consuming more space. Gandhi and his followers or disciples – are not the same. As told by an ashramite of early days, He refused to meet Gandhi, since in one birth, Gandhi was an asura, named Mur – and Lord annihilated him for which he got the title ... from Comments for Overman Foundation - May 7, 2011 (3 days ago)

Comment on The Last Photographs of Sri Aurobindo by nirmalya ...But then again why do we need to decipher so much from his looks and postures? It is all his and will never be ours. Rather we should appreciate his comforts and discomforts. Surely A.G. wouldn’t have liked it given my understanding of his attitude that I had read of but would have only smiled it off through his eyes for one of his million devot... from Comments for Overman Foundation - May 4, 2011 (6 days ago)

Comment on The Last Darshan Photographs of Sri Aurobindo by nirmalya ...Pranams to AG and Mira Richard on this day. May their Light continue to guide us and the humanity for a better and evolved Earth that they sought for…The Earth Consciousness.. from Comments for Overman Foundation - Apr 25, 2011 12:57 AM

Comment on Sri Aurobindo’s letter to Moraji Desai by nirmalya ...age comes when it is required and when it finally comes it goes into another `Self’… and then it is no longer required. A.G was also a firm believer in the philosophy of the Greek mystic philosopher `Epictetus’. Epictetus believed that consummation with a minor was evil. AG was 29 and Mrinalini 14. You are of course free to draw your conclus... from Comments for Overman Foundation - Apr 21, 2011 3:22 PM

Comment on Sri Aurobindo’s letter to Moraji Desai by Sandeep ...s Agenda October 20 1971 (“They have found some letters — some old letters — from Sri Aurobindo to Barin and the lawyer…). Anyway, I think we will close the discussion, unless you want to talk offline from Comments for Overman Foundation - Apr 22, 2011 3:48 PM

Comment on Sri Aurobindo’s letter to Moraji Desai by nirmalya ...agination floating all over the world. Therefore, I only go by as to what A.G. said and not by what others say. Hence it is better not to come to conclusions. We should try to respect the privacy of a man who really did not want that his life should be known to all. He had his reasons. Then why do we gather evidence floating around him in bits a... from Comments for Overman Foundation - Apr 20, 2011 1:22 PM

Comment on Sri Aurobindo’s letter to Moraji Desai by Sandeep

...and then again call her after 8 years saying ‘ amar siddhi labh hoyeche, tumi ebar aste paro’ ( I have achieved Siddhi and now you may come to Pondicherry )….But then why did he leave her without a notice.” Nirmalya: Let us not wildly imagine that A.G. did not want to disturb the `supramental atmosphere’ by not wanting to meet Gandhi. This is i... from Comments for Overman Foundation - Apr 19, 2011 7:00 PM

Comment on Sri Aurobindo’s letter to Moraji Desai by nirmalya ...agnum opus Life Divine and Savitri. As per Ashram records A.G. use to get many letters, small and big, and he never stood away from answering them however puerile the thoughts might be. Let us not wildly imagine that A.G. did not want to disturb the `supramental atmosphere’ by not wanting to meet Gandhi. This is iconoclastic oversimplification, ... from Comments for Overman Foundation - Apr 19, 2011 1:04 PM

Comment on Sri Aurobindo’s letter to Moraji Desai by nirmalya But where is Morarji’s letter. That would be even more interesting as to what prompted A.G. to write a letter to an avowed Gandhian. A.G. had refused to meet Gandhi but could afford to reply to his disciple as he also did in the case of Gandhi. Interesting piece of information for the researcher. from Comments for Overman Foundation - Apr 19, 2011 4:14 AM

Comment on Sri Aurobindo’s letter to Moraji Desai by Sandeep ...agraph makes it amply clear that Sri Aurobindo was giving general advice to an individual who had come to visit the Ashram. (“difficult for me to say anything definite without more precise data than those contained in your letter.”). Way back in 1935, Morarji Desai was NOT the well-carved-out personality we know him today. He was only a buddin... from Comments for Overman Foundation - Apr 19, 2011 4:14 AM

Comment on Reminiscences of Bhupal Chandra Bose, Sri Aurobindo’s father-in-law by nirmalya ...and then again call her after 8 years saying ‘ amar siddhi labh hoyeche, tumi ebar aste paro’ (I have achieved Siddhi and now you may come to Pondicherry ). As far I am aware of A.G. himself took the initiative and got an advertisement published in the newspaper for marriage. After that he went on to see almost 50 bengalee ladies and then fina... from Comments for Overman Foundation - Apr 4, 2011 3:40 PM

The next step is Fascism

Back to Discussion (Topic:Issues of inclusion v exclusion in Auroville)

Comment on Issues of inclusion v exclusion in Auroville

by Rod

Last Updated: May 5, 2011

One of the main problems, it seems to me, is many people's inability to think properly and to use language properly, and also a lack of training in subjects such as sociology and political science. 

For example, if we look at the principles for decision making published by the AV Council (N&N 9 April), we read: "There is no exchange of money, or as little as possible. Work is not performed for earning one's living but to serve and to progress." When an ideal like this is made a rule against which people are judged it automaticaly sets up a principle of exclusion. It is well known that at least a third of Aurovilians work to support themselves and do not take "maintenance". That group would be automatically excluded and at any point could be judged negatively against the principle. In practice, the principle would probably be used selectively to discriminate against some person or group for their behavior. 

Another example from the same source: "Aurovilians do not belong to any ideology, race, group, religion or nationality and therefore cannot represent any of those..." This of course directly contradicts the Mother's idea of the International Zone as well as the fundamental nature of everyone and every group of human beings. It is also a statement of ideology in itself. And it can easily (and falsely) be used to exclude Koreans, Tamils, French, or anyone else, for just about any reason.

It is exactly this kind of behavior that I have pointed out with the GB decision that our school isn't in conformity with the Charter. In this example, the Charter is held up as a principle for judging and excluding something about which it in fact says nothing. It is just someone's delusional state of mind that finds a talisman for conveniently excluding others.

The next step is Fascism.

Back to Vrinda Estela Pujals 's Comment
Comment on Issues of inclusion v exclusion in Auroville
by Rod  in reply to Vrinda Estela Pujals
Last Updated: May 8, 2011
In response to one of your earlier questions, I think that Sanjukta Gupta is one of the best interpreters of Hinduism working in academia, and in the US today Robert Thurman in Buddhism. In India, academics are seriously lagging behind the West. I have given lectures in several universities recently and I have not found the general response to be very challenging. Auroville has practically no intellectual dimension, although that would change if it actually developed into an international city. But there aren't any signs of that happening at present. Many are actually against it.

As for your question of yoga on some collective level, it seems from a closer of reading of Sri Aurobindo that everything really depends on the individual effort, and divine grace. A collctivity of yogis can't be artificially created. I have commented on the paradox implied for Auroville in my presentation at the conference on Spirituality Beyond Religion held here last year. The integral yoga of Sri Aurobindo and the Mother enters into the field of evolution. It aims for spirituality to become an evolutionary pathway. That means leaving behind all the religious trappings and making life a sacrifice, not just for a new consciousness, but for a new species. This is what it means, however little it is understood as yet. There is definitely scope for bringing this discussion into the academic arena through philosophy and religion as well as through psychology and the other human sciences. But to do this requires quite a lot more than academic credentials.