People operate with diverse systems of belief and we can live with this incoherence - Political Theology: Four New Chapters on the Concept of Sovereignty - Page 118 - Paul W. Kahn - 2011 - Preview - More editions In the postmodern world, the...1 month ago
In view of the fact that multiple anonymous comments in a thread make confusing reading and it becomes difficult to track who is telling what and to whom, only comments bearing some name/pseudonym/identity will appear in future. [TNM 011110 SEOF]
Thursday 30 November 2006
 On the bad feeling between the two, see "Do Critics Misrepresent My Position? - A Test Case from a Recent Academic Journal" http://wilber.shambhala.com/html/misc/critics_03.cfm/ ; "Response to Ken Wilber" - Robert McDermott's reply to Wilber http://www.integralworld.net/mcdermott.html ; "Response to McDermott" - http://www.integralworld.net/mcdermott2.html - Wilber's reply to McDermott ; "Critics Do. Critics Don't - A Response to Ken Wilber" http://deepspirit.com/sys-tmpl/replytowilbercontd3/ - de Quincey's counter-reply to Wilber.
This whole situation seems to have come about because Wilber chose to attack a number of eco-philosopher and eco-feminist scholars on the CIIS faculty in his book Sex, Ecology, Spirituality (note the choice of title).
See also Michel Bauwens recollections: "I was also privy, since I was in regular email contact back then, to Wilber's private denunciations of institutes like the California Institute of Integral Studies and the Naropa Institute, schools that I had monitored, visited, and have many highly qualitative teachers and researchers. It's not that he said that they were imperfect, no, they were 'cesspools' and one would have to stay at all cost away from them. This aggressiveness I personally found disturbing. I started to notice how easily Ken praised works that favorably use his work, he did it with my own magazine Wave, which he highly praised in a note even though he could not possibly read the Dutch-language it was written in, while being so aggressive with those who disagree." "The Cult of Ken Wilber" http://www.kheper.net/topics/Wilber/Cult_of_Ken_Wilber.html The similarity with Wilber's more recent attack on Visser's Integral World website and on Visser in person (see "What We Are, That We See: Response to Some Recent Criticism in a Wild West Fashion" http://www.kenwilber.com/blog/show/46 and "Take the Visser Site as Alternatives to KW, But Never as the Views of KW" http://www.kenwilber.com/blog/show/86 ) is uncanny.
BELIEFS; Voters' Guides Define Moral Compromises to Take to Polls (October 14, 2006)
Northern Ireland's 'Dr. No' Faces New Political Dilemma (October 12, 2006)
Political Memo; Religious Left Struggles To Find Unifying Message (May 19, 2006)
Conservative Christians Warn Republicans Against Inaction (May 15, 2006)
Forum: Human Origins Related Searches Christians and Christianity Politics and Government Atheism Shweder, Richard A
Wednesday 29 November 2006
Indian culture proceeded on the principles of a concert that strove to find its base in a unity and reached out again towards some greater oneness. Its aim was a lasting organization that would minimise or even eliminate the principle of struggle.
But it ended by achieving peace and stable arrangement through omission, division and immobility of status, it drew magic circle of safety and shut itself up in it for good. In the end it lost its force of aggression, weakened its power of assimilation and decayed within its barriers. A static and limited concert, not always enlarging itself, not plastic becomes in our human state of imperfection a prison or a sleeping-chamber.
Concert can not be anything but imperfect and temporary in its form and can only preserve its liveliness and fulfill its ultimate aim if it constantly adapts, expands, progresses. Its lesser unities must widen towards a broader and more comprehensive and above all a more real and spiritual oneness. In the larger statement of our culture and civilization that we have now to achieve, a greater outward expression of spiritual and psychological oneness, but with a diversity, which the mechanical method of Europe does not tolerate, will surely be one leading motive. A concert, a unity with the rest of mankind, in which we shall maintain our spiritual and our outer independence will be another line of our attempt. prasadchikshe
Tuesday 28 November 2006
A marvelous and sweeping post that indeed can only be an introduction to a vast subject.You made a passing reference to "levels below the material" that "should not detain us right now."However, I should indeed like to be detained right now--I would like to apprehend the whole spectrum from the highest to the absolute lowest at least once.Can you help out here? 11/27/2006 09:59:03 AM
The Grammar Police detected no typos.Clearly the "brain-dead" phase has passed. The logjam has blown out, the river is freely flowing again. Let's jump in our kayaks and hit the rapids! Heads up, class IV ahead!I love the 'involution' concept, which directly contradicts so much of the up-and-out nonsense that passes for spirituality these days. It clarifies a major purpose of our being here - to materialize the spiritual gift we've been given into the fabric of our daily lives. When Paul says, "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure..." he is admonishing us to sweat at bringing the ineffable right down to street level. If we don't do the work of bringing the light down into our clay pots, I don't think we deserve much attention from the Maker. That's not to say we can earn "salvation" on our own either, any more than a janitor could create nuclear fusion. But it does demand that once we recognize we have been switched on, it's our job to keep the power bill paid up. Think we could talk Devo into a remake? - Are we not men? We are Invo! 11/27/2006 11:09:13 AM
Anonymous - the "mentality of the West" and its aggression re a one world religion is a thing apart from esoteric Christianity, as Sri Aurobindo obviously understood. 11/27/2006 01:06:46 PM
Gagdad Bob said...
Oops. Sorry, deleted him rather than getting sidetracked. Suffice it to say that the troll proves Aurobindo's point. 11/27/2006 01:17:08 PM
I'm not sure if the physical body in the material world as it is presently constituted can ever fully accomodate the influx of Spirit, not without some difficulty. The process of transforming the body is literally "unnatural" - it's an "upward" pull in a gravitationally "downward" pull world. I'm speculating here, but perhaps a "meet in the middle" process could take place, one in which the basic fabric of the universe, or at least our small section of it, itself undergoes a transformation. Our transformed physical bodies would then more readily accomodate to a new material reality - or if not transformed, would exist as fish out of water, sort of as those with transforming bodies do now. Of course, a transforming material reality would involve considerable disturbance, just as a transforming physical body does. You know, disturbances like climate changes, quakes, tsunamis, etc. 11/27/2006 01:20:43 PM
Gagdad Bob said...
Will--A couple of parallel passages. Paul says,"For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs until now... even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body."
What if there is some kind of say "virus" that prepares bodies to receive and incorporate a higher vibration, where bodies without the "virus" burn out too fast and die? Could explain mysterious kundalini-like illnesses... 11/27/2006 02:19:27 PM
NoMo here -- My previous comments on the quotes from Paul and Sri Aurobindo having been deleted by GB (I think I've been trollified), I would just suggest that we all take great care quoting the Bible. Many have gone far astray by losing context. Remember, a text without its context can be a pretext. 11/27/2006 02:36:18 PM
Joan of Argghh! said...
I'm just hoping that my spiritual body can fit into a size 8 toga. Otherwise, what's the point?:)But seriously, folks. There are times when the world can't contain the joy or sorrow that one soul can feel. I'd like to think that our celestial transformation will confirm that sense that there is so much--- more. More to feel, to expereience, to know.Perhaps even the angels have their sorrows and regrets and the mind would boggle at how great a space such an emotion could occupy. But, then, the breadth of celestial peace and joy would certainly explain the beauty of a glorious sunrise. Not meaning to antropomorphize the weather, but the Bible says, "the Heavens do declare the glory of God, and the firmament shows his handiwork. Day after day it speaks, and night after night it imparts knowledge." Why should our bodies do any less here or hereafter? 11/27/2006 02:46:47 PM
Ben usn (ret) said...
My apologies to my fellow Bobbleheads expecting Benster's catch of the day...O--k Naval biostory.Unfortunately, MSNTV (aka webtv), is problematic, to say the least (ie unreliable, and doesn't work as advertised).I have lost 2 installments to cyberhell, and 3 yesterday.That's one reason why I'm usually pithy, because even my vaunted patience has a limit. However, I do have a plan, and if it works (hey, I saw it on a cartoon once, so in theory it should, or was that a dream?) then I'll work extra hard to bring you the quality (or at least the quantity) programming you expect. Thank you for your patience. 11/27/2006 03:33:56 PM
DESIDERATAGO PLACIDLY AMID THE NOISE & HASTE, & REMEMBER WHAT peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender, be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull & ignorant; they too have their story. *** Avoid loud & aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain & bitter; for always there will be greater & lesser persons than yourself. 11/27/2006 08:38:35 PM
Personally, I have been thinking about Ramakrishna as the origin of most of 20th century Indian thought. (remember that Vivekananda appeared to Aurobindo in Alipore jail. also, look up ‘Ramakrishna’ in Aurobindo’s 3 vo. letters on yoga. I will quote the pertinent passage here when I can.)
Ramakrishna’s main accomplishment was to synthesize vedanta with tantra. Ramakrishna scholarship is full of deep problems, most obviously the division between the Ramakrishna Mission’s puritan expurgated reading of RK and Jeffrey Kripal’s perhaps excessively sexualized reading of him. but I am convinced that Aurobindo’s unique genius owes something, and perhaps quite a bit, to the 19th century illiterate Bengali genius. goethean Says: November 27th, 2006 at 3:23 pm It’s actually more complicated than that. Kripal says that Ramakrishna gave vedantic, non-sexual teachings to his monastic students, including Vivekananda, who were teenage boys, and more tantric teachings to his married “householder” students. The Ramakrishna Mission, which descends from the monstic disciples, thus perpetuates the vedantic aspect of RK’s teachings which is what was taught to their predecessors. Kripal has tried to resurrect the tantric RK.
This, of course, horrified the Ramakrishna Mission and many Bengalis (Indian sexual mores being rather Victorian) who don’t want RK seen as a pervert despite the fact that there is some indication in the Bengali text that RK had some non-normative sexual desires. I’m convinced that RK’s tantra has been suppressed, especially in translation, since the beginning.
Monday 27 November 2006
Thursday 23 November 2006
But what is the nature of the infinite? What is the nature of the Witness? And how do we interpret both? I suggest delving into the great sacred texts and into the modern classics by the great prophets, theologians, seers and social justice sages of contemporary times. And find a community that breaths life into one of the honoured traditions of the Mystery and do what they do for yourself. And keep dancing. peace mark Edward Berge Says: November 23rd, 2006 at 9:43 am I’m doing it Mark and the work-in-progress is here on these pages. And this community is an important part of that process, for which I give thanks on this day of thanksgiving. Mark Says:November 23rd, 2006 at 8:05 pm Wonderful to hear that Edward.