Sunday, April 11, 2010

Who are the two?

From Jitendra Sharma aurofrance@gmail.com to "Tusar N. Mohapatra" tusarnmohapatra@gmail.com date 11 April 2010 09:52 subject Re: Reply to Mr. S.
Dear Mr. S.,
              The Mother refers to Mr. Nirodbaran and Mr. Amal Kiran as ‘two morons’ in this passage: “Unfortunately, there were two morons here who fancied correcting him – while he was alive! (A. especially, he’s a poet.)”  (Mother’s Agenda, Vol.4, 13 March, 1963, pp. 84-85)  

                  I do not believe that these words are the imagination of Mr. Satprem. He must have removed this recording as he did not want to hurt the feelings of some persons.

                    In another passage, the Mother opines that Mr. Nirodbaran has not understood ONE BIT of ‘Savitri’. “But in Savitri’s case … (I didn’t look after it, you know), he had around him Purani, that Chinmayi, and …(what’s his name?) Nirod – they all swarmed around him. …and I realized that none of those  people had understood ONE BIT of it.” (Mother’s Agenda, Vol.4, 13 March, 1963, pp. 82-83)

                 You can listen to this recording in the Mother’s voice on Internet. If the Mother was physically present in 1993, would She allow Mr. Amal Kiran and Mr. Nirod Baran to edit ‘Savitri’?                                                                                      - Jitendra Sharma
From Jitendra Sharma aurofrance@gmail.com to "Tusar N. Mohapatra" tusarnmohapatra@gmail.com date 11 April 2010 21:01 subject Re: Reg. ongoing discussion on Sri Aurobindo's Savitri
Amal Kiran, apropos of the Mother calling him a “moron”, explains his understanding of it in a letter dated 7 May 1988. He writes to a friend of his as follows:
http://www.mirroroftomorrow.org/blog/_archives/2010/3/20/4485311.html#1305638
Personal Letters by Amal Kiran, Life-Poetry-Yoga, Vol. 1, pp. 256-60, (1994) 

From Auro Lumiere aurolumiere@yahoo.fr to tusarnmohapatra@gmail.com date 13 April 2010 12:13 subject Quoting the Mother's Agenda
Dear Mr. Tusar Mohapatra, here is my response to Mr. Jitendra Shrama’s message and question. Thank you for posting. 
Dear Mr. Jitendra Sharma, 
Please realize that your arguments just do not hold any water. I reproduce your words:

«I do not believe that these words are the imagination of Mr. Satprem. He must have removed this recording as he did not want to hurt the feelings of some persons.»

You evidently just cannot provide any clear evidence to support your allegations, that Mother clearly and unequivocally called Mr. Nirodbaran and Amal Kiran  «morons» because there are NO such tape recordings available.  
All you can do is to speculate and express  your personal beliefs. These of course mean absolutely nothing to me, as I suppose they also mean nothing to the vast majority that follow the Intelligent path of Aurobindo’s Yoga.  
Regarding your other question:

«If the Mother was physically present in 1993, would She allow Mr. Amal Kiran and Mr. Nirod Baran to edit ‘Savitri’? »

I have seen some people, like Mr. Satprem, who believe that they know or can guess what Mother would have done. Doesn’t this line of thought show that these people think that they are as knowledgeable as Mother? Is it surprising then, when such people usually land up in isolated seclusion, in a mental asylum or need psychiatric help?  
Moreover, you appear to be completely blind, unwilling to understand and in complete denial of the FACT that Mr. Nirodbaran and Mr. Amal Kiran were involved in the editing of ALL of the editions of Savitri, all of which happened DURING Mother’s time, and WITH her consent. Your continued denial  is certainly not a very positive sign.  
You are of course you free to prefer to deliberately stay in the perpetual state of ignorance, illusion and self-deception that some stay in. 
At the Service of Light and Truth, Françoise de Nielly
From August Timmermans augusttimmermans@yahoo.com totusarnmohapatra@gmail.com date 12 April 2010 11:14 subject conflict madness
Dear Mr. Mohapatra, I would like to contribute to this Savitri dispute. See text below. Conflict Madness

Every time I think I should contribute something to this (false) controversy regarding the revised editions of Savitri, I fail to do so since I have concluded over the past year that this is not the real issue at hand, neither 'The Lives', Maithunananda, and Darshan Message(s). The real issue is what the persons who initiate these false disputes really want. To address this it is unavoidable to mention names. Alok Pandey, Sraddhalu Ranade and RY Deshpande, and others, in every issue they take on they directly attack the Ashram Trustees. This looks like they want to increase their influence on other sadhaks and in the end take over the Ashram organization. If this would ever happen, you can imagine how they would get rid of all 'underperforming' sadhaks, of course judged against their self-set rules of devotionism. 

Sadhaks who resort to faul language and lie about issues concerning other sadhaks are not exactly representing the Founders of the Ashram. Unfortunately, in reality, Alok Pandey and Sraddhalu Ranade are (mediocre) lecturers in the Integral Yoga and interpreters of Savitri. What the source is of their interpretation of the IY and Savitri leaves many people wondering. We live in absurd times and unfortunately the Ashram has become as much the target as the conflicts that are played out in religions and politics worldwide. It gives hope that the Integral Yoga represents a large worldwide collective that warrants complex diversity as well as a diverse way of exploring consciousness. August Timmermans 
From August Timmermans augusttimmermans@yahoo.com to "Tusar N. Mohapatra" tusarnmohapatra@gmail.com date 12 April 2010 19:12 subject Re: conflict madness
Dear Mr. Tusar,
Well, my apology for not having included your name. Since your website is an open forum than the other sites of your friends I also regard you as being more openminded. Your reply is honest, which I appreciate. Would you mind if I share this with others? August 
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Deshpande publicly insulted Nirodbaran": Mr. Tusar, Your articles link to pages with different contents, so it is difficult to understand how to add comments properly.

This is in response to Mr. Timmermans comment which asks "The real issue is what the persons who initiate these false disputes really want", and Mr. Vrata who states "I doubt that we would get editors with better qualifications, credentials and integrity than Mr. Nirodbaran and Mr. Amal Kiran [so we shouldn't revise the 1993 edition]".

Mother said, "don't change a comma", but we got successive editions up to the 1993 one even though the best authorities - viz. Sri Aurobindo and the Mother - had passed away. But now it is said that since the next set of authorities (AK/NB) are inactive, we should not make more changes, even though it appears that there are spurious elements in the 1993 edition. Can one have it both ways?

I cannot read into people's hearts and minds to know what they really want or whether they are raising false disputes. What if one genuinely wants Savitri as Sri Aurobindo left it, and deeply feels there are issues with the available versions and the processes to get to them? What advice would Mr. T and Mr. V give them on how to raise the issue effectively?
Thank you. Posted by Anonymous to Savitri Era Open Forum at 6:33 AM, April 13, 2010 [Cisco Systems (171.71.135.134) San Jose, California, United States
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Drive out the Marxists, secularists, and the Hindu..."
dear friend.. i agree with you.... 
Posted by Anonymous to Savitri Era at 12:24 AM, April 13, 2010 [Nib (national Internet Backbone) (117.199.85.122) Amritsar, Punjab, India]

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